Summiting Mount Washington & STEM Education with Mike Carmon

In this episode of the Everything Weather podcast, we engage in a lively conversation with Mike Carman, the Summit Weather Operations Manager for the Mount Washington Observatory in New Hampshire. We discuss Mike's journey into the world of weather, his experiences managing one of the most extreme weather stations in the world, and how he contributes to weather education and science communication. Mike also shares his memories of facing Mount Washington's brutal weather, his role at the observatory, and the importance of accurate weather observations.

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A weekly podcast where we talk with people about the weather world, explore and discuss everything weather and the many things that connect to it, and have a little fun along the way. The podcast is hosted and produced by Kyle David, a meteorologist and digital science content producer based in New Jersey.

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Transcript

Kyle David: Hello and welcome to the Everything Weather podcast, where we talk with people about the weather world, explore and discuss everything weather, and have a little fun along the way. I'm your host, Kyle David, and today on the show, we're excited to have Mike Carmon, who Mike is the summit weather operations manager for the Mount Washington observatory in New Hampshire.

He also contributes a lot to science communication and education independently, and is also the former director of programs for white mountain science, a STEM education program in New Hampshire. Hi, Mike, when welcome to the everything weather podcast. 

Mike Carmon: Hey, Kyle. Great to be here. Thanks for having me on.

Kyle David: Absolutely. Before we get into our interview, I always like to start off with a quick fun game, so I got one for ya. Rank these severe weather phenomena, and you're gonna blandly rank them on a scale of one to five, one being your favorite, five being [00:01:00] your least favorite, and those will be locked in as we go down the list.

Mike Carmon: Sounds good. 

Kyle David: Alright, your first one is strong winds. 

Mike Carmon: Oh, strong winds. I like strong winds, but I'm curious what else you have up your sleeve. And I can't commit to a one or five this early. So I'm going to put that out of three. 

Kyle David: Okay. Fair enough. Next up is hail. I don't have a specific on the strong winds or hail, but just strong winds and hail in general.

Mike Carmon: Strong wind and hail. Interesting. It's funny. I have not seen much hail, past weather experiences. So I'm going to put that, and hail can cause a lot of problems. So I'm going to put that down out of four. 

Kyle David: Okay. Yeah, that's true. It does cause some issues, especially the big gorilla size hail, as Reed Timmer says.

Next one up raining fish and frogs, 

Mike Carmon: fish and frogs. Oh boy. Yeah. So yeah, we're going to put that at, let's give that the number five slot. 

Kyle David: Throw a couple of curve balls then. [00:02:00] But back to more vanilla and severe weather phenomenon. Your next one is tornadoes. 

Mike Carmon: Ooh, tornadoes. Yeah, I think I'm ready to commit to number one.

Tornadoes are what got me interested in weather in the first place. So I can't imagine anything else beating that. So we'll put that at number one. 

Kyle David: Okay. Well, I mean, it depends on what you think of this next one, the final one. Thundersnow. 

Mike Carmon: Ooh, okay. Yeah, I think I'm comfortable with, it's very close. I think between tornadoes and thundersnow.

Both are really exciting for very different reasons. Um, so I, I feel good about that at number two. 

Kyle David: If you could, would you swap one of them or keep the list as is? Actually, I 

Mike Carmon: think I would keep it at it as is. I'm pretty, I feel good about those results. Yeah. Tornado and thundersnow, I think definitely are.

Cut above their ass. Strong winds are always exciting and then the precipitation is what it is. So yeah, I feel good about that. [00:03:00] 

Kyle David: Alright, very good. And that's basically the first game. We got a couple more left in the bag. So before we get into those games, we gotta learn a little bit more about you. So everybody I have on the podcast, I always ask them about their weather story, what got them interested in everything weather.

So Mike, tell me, what got you interested in everything weather? What is your weather story? 

Mike Carmon: Absolutely. Yeah, it's definitely a question I get asked frequently too. I feel like with meteorologists, like you said, it's a profession of passion, right? People don't just necessarily fall into it. So for me, and I talked about this a little bit already, but when I was about five years old, Most of my early life, I grew up in New Jersey, but for a short amount of time, about a year and a half, I lived in the suburbs outside of Chicago, and if I was five, six years old, at that age, obviously you're just discovering what's what, and some of my earliest memories are from that age.

Some of my earliest memories include tornado [00:04:00] sirens, the sky getting dark. The wind picking up, my parents chasing me back inside to say, you can't be out on your bike right now, um, because there's a tornado warning. Uh, we used to take cover in the basement. And the more they tried to pull me in, the more I wanted to stay out and see it.

I, I never actually saw a tornado in person. Still, still on my bucket list. I still hope that happens for me. But just the, it obviously fascinated me to the point where I wanted to know more. I wanted to know why tornadoes happen, what causes them? Why are they so destructive? Why do they happen in certain places versus not in other places?

Um, you know, that and severe weather all just lumped together for me is, you know, I want to be a weatherman when I grow up. And it's really cool. I think a lot of people have those dreams when they're young and then they get older and that kind of fades with time. But for me, that's never changed. I've always known that's my true passion to learn more about the weather, why it happens and severe weather in particular, still to this day, when [00:05:00] there's a thunderstorm coming in, I get that feeling in the pit of my stomach, that excitement.

Even if it's just going to be an ordinary run of the mill thunderstorm, it's still the sky darkening, the winds picking up, hearing the rumbles in the distance, and in some cases hearing the rain as it gets closer and closer, and everything just picking up for me. There's no more exciting feeling. 

Kyle David: I find it interesting that you got interested in the weather because of tornadoes, and yet you have not seen one yet.

Mike Carmon: It's sort of my weather holy grail, if you will, that for whatever reason, I mean, I think part of it's just where I've lived. I had that brief stint living in Illinois there, but, uh, ever since I've either lived in New Jersey or lived in New Hampshire. And not places that are normally known for tornadic activity, although it does happen, of course, in those areas, but not as often as obviously you'll see out in the Great Plains and whatnot.

So yeah, maybe it's the thing that's keeping me going, keeping my passion going, is the fact that I still have not yet seen that [00:06:00] ultimate prize for me, which is a tornado in person. 

Kyle David: Well, I will say, you're not in the best state to see tornadoes. Uh, New Hampshire doesn't really do that. See that many, to my knowledge.

Mike Carmon: No, it doesn't. We, we have had some tornado outbreaks since I've lived up here, mostly over in Maine where things are a little bit flatter and you're on the downslope side of the white mountains there. So we do have some tornadoes there, but, but yeah, nothing like what you'd see out in the Midwest.

Kyle David: Absolutely. For sure. And just curious, cause you moved from Illinois to New Jersey. And you're also now in New Hampshire. I just wanted to really quick ask you, what weather in each state do you prefer? Do you prefer the weather in Illinois, New Jersey, or New Hampshire? 

Mike Carmon: Oh, that's a great question. I think, yeah, I think I like different things for different reasons.

So for instance, for like New Hampshire, I mean, New England weather is renowned for it's just back and forth nature. Um, [00:07:00] the go, the, the common phrase you'll hear around here. Is if you don't like the weather, just wait a minute and you'll get something different. That's very much holds up in New Hampshire, Northern New Hampshire in particular, and particularly in the mountains where I am.

So as far as like. If I want something exciting, if I'm in the mood for a really big Nor'easter or something like that, nothing beats New Hampshire as a vantage point. But I also love severe weather and the mountains, unfortunately, are not great when you're trying to build supercells. So I think of the summertime, I would more prefer being a little bit further West so I could see some of that.

Kyle David: And it's not really good chasing train. It's like out in the Midwest, the plains, flat land, as far as the eye can see. But in New England, it's all mountains, trees, and other stuff. 

Mike Carmon: I've tried, but I have friends that have tried to chase around here. When we do get those very seldom tornado outbreaks and yeah, the mountains just make it impossible by the time you get [00:08:00] there.

Yeah. There's no easy way to go West to East in New England. There's usually a mountain range on the way. So that kind of, unfortunately. Yeah. Um, does not lend itself well to catching a tornado on the fly during its short lived existence. 

Kyle David: Yeah, and I've tried chasing in southwest New Jersey, and for those that aren't familiar with New Jersey, that's basically mostly farmland, but there's still like trees and stuff, and that's a pain to chase down there.

So I can't imagine what it's like weaving in and out of mountain ranges, valleys, up in New England. 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, a whole different set of challenges, and Around here, I think it's just better to wait for the weather to come to you. 

Kyle David: Wait for the weather to come to you, I like that. Or, as you said earlier, wait for the weather to change in your particular area.

Mike Carmon: Well, yeah. That's, that's the thing around here. Um, it never takes long, um, to change. Uh, especially in the shoulder seasons here, where it could be 60 degrees and bright sunshine one day, and then the next day it could be [00:09:00] snowing. And 20 degrees and back again. That's a very kind of common tale, especially up here in the mountains, which have a whole kind of microclimate of their own.

So that makes things extra fun. 

Kyle David: Absolutely. Yes. So going back to what you'd mentioned about your passion, getting that interest from the weather from tornadoes, when did you make the connection? Hey, I want to do this for the rest of my life. I want to make a career out of the weather. 

Mike Carmon: It's funny. I think I was a little.

Naive initially thinking that, okay, I'm going to be a weatherman. Like, that's what I want to do. And not nearing necessarily knowing what that meant at a young age. And I think as I got older, because I loved tornadoes and also around this time that I was getting this passion, the movie twister came out.

I'm not sure how many times I saw that in the theater at this point. I don't know how many times I've watched it in my life. I can't imagine. I can't even count probably. Um, so I evolved into, I want to be a storm [00:10:00] chaser when I grew up. And I think as I got older, I realized it's not necessarily a career you can make a living on, but it's a great hobby.

And this was also pre social media time as well when I was growing up. So I think social media has helped storm chasers make a bit more of a, of a career for themselves. Um, but when I was coming up in college, it wasn't really a thing yet. So I think as I got into college, I was excited. I was finally learning the things I really wanted to learn and being challenged, but also like, what am I going to do with this?

Like graduation's coming. Like, what do I do with a meteorology degree when I graduate? And so that was something I think I struggled with a little bit, especially as I was getting closer and closer to graduation. And so I was, I definitely graduated not necessarily knowing what was going to be next for me and not knowing if weather was going to be what was next.

So that's, yeah, it was a little bit of an air of uncertainty. I think, yeah, when I graduated. 

Kyle David: So you really weren't [00:11:00] sure what you wanted to do after you graduate. You didn't know where exactly you wanted to go. How did you eventually end up at the Mount Washington Observatory? 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, I think this was definitely a situation of right place, right time.

I was in a situation where I just graduated with this degree and I had this other side job and that was just a side administrative job didn't necessarily wasn't in the field or anything. And so I just so happened to get an email from a former professor about an internship opportunity at Mount Washington.

I had heard about Mount Washington in my meteorology classes in school. I knew from a meteorological perspective what it was all about, but never been up to northern New Hampshire, didn't know the area at all, never hiked, never skied, never spent any time in anything close to the what Mount Washington's weather can can be.

So I think I was like, yeah, this sounds really cool. Like I can go live on Mount Washington for three months in an internship. And I also assumed looking at that [00:12:00] opportunity, like, Oh man, this must be super competitive. I probably have almost no chance of getting this, but I'm going to apply anyway, because I don't know, I don't know what the next step is.

So let's give this a try if nothing else. Maybe I'll learn a little bit more about, about the observatory itself and what it does. And I got a call back for an interview and I, the interview was going to be conducted on top of Mount Washington. So I packed my bags for a quick trip in the summertime and drove up here with a friend.

And yeah, I had an interview on top of Mount Washington. I'll never forget the morning I showed up, I was like, all right, this is a job interview, so I'm going to dress in a suit and you know, all this stuff. And I show up and I'm like, so completely overdressed. Because we're going up to Mount Washington, everyone's in great car hearts and hiking clothes and whatnot, and I was like, oh, yeah, this is not exactly what I expected, um, but it seemed to work well, they offered me the [00:13:00] internship on the spot, um, right after I was done with the interview, and Mount Washington's been a part of my life ever since.

Kyle David: What are some things that you learned from that internship that you now apply to your current job? 

Mike Carmon: Uh, I think I, oh man, I learned so much. Um, that was my first like real job. Um, it was also my first time away from home, uh, cause I lived very close to Rutgers, um, where I went to school. So I commuted, I saved a lot of money doing that, but.

Um, it was my first time away from home, my first real job, my first time living in a rural area, first time living on a mountain, of course. So there was, there was a lot tied up in that. So I think I learned a lot about who I was in that moment. First time being away from home, um, learned a lot about being independent.

Also learned the general sort of way to be, what it means to be counted on in a [00:14:00] professional setting. Whereas obviously you don't necessarily learn those sorts of things. Maybe you do if you have part time jobs in high school and that sort of thing, but really the sort of situation of, Oh, this thing needs to be done.

And I'm the only one doing it. And if it doesn't get done, that's a problem. And so I learned that this is a task you have to do. And if it doesn't get done, then it doesn't get done at all. And people are counting on it, especially when that thing that you're assigned is a, is a weather forecast that you have recreationalists And in some cases, search and rescue operations are looking at that forecast and making critical decisions based on it.

And so suddenly I was like, Oh, okay. We're in the big time here. Like I'm actually doing forecasting and there's real world implications if my forecast is good or not. And so that was definitely a moment of, all right, we're not in school anymore. This is where it's at. 

Kyle David: This is the real world now. 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, absolutely.

Kyle David: And before we get into a little more of that [00:15:00] real world experience that you're now, all the weather people who are either in the field or very passionate about the weather, they very likely know what Mount Washington is all about and the observatory is up there. But for some of our listeners who may not know what the observatory is, what Mount Washington is, can you tell us a little more about what the Mount Washington Observatory is and what you do up there?

Mike Carmon: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The Mount Washington observatory. So it's located on the summit of Mount Washington in Northern New Hampshire, and it's the tallest peak in the white mountains of New Hampshire. It's also the tallest peak East of the Mississippi river and North of North Carolina. So basically you have to go back to, you have to go West to the black Hills of South Dakota before you find an elevation higher than Mount Washington.

Um, and so it's extremely prominent mountain. Um, and because of its prominence and also because of its proximity to the Atlantic ocean, um, and also because of its proximity to the configuration of the jet stream, Mount [00:16:00] Washington regularly experiences extremely severe weather. And especially for a mountain, it's only 6, 288 feet in elevation, which if you think about mountains around the world, that's not really.

That high, um, but let's see some of the most extreme weather in the world. And it was discovered that it was special in this way, more than a century ago. And so weather observations and observations in general just started to be taken up there as early as the late 1800s. And then eventually a full weather observatory was established up there in 1932, and there's been a constant presence taking weather observations on top of Mount Washington since 1932 by the Mount Washington Observatory.

And so it's a historic organization, which is why it's really exciting to be a part of this tradition of living and studying this extreme environment. Um, and then probably what Mount Washington is most famous for at this point, two years after the [00:17:00] observatory was founded, the observers experienced and recorded a wind gust of 231 miles per hour, and that was in April of 1934.

And at the time that was the highest wind gust ever recorded on the face of the earth. And so that was a really exciting claim to fame. And the observatory held that record for a long time. Uh, that record has since been broken, but it's still regularly experiences those very high winds much more than you would expect for, for a mountain of 6, 300 foot in elevation.

Kyle David: So if you had to describe it in three words, how would you describe the weather up at Mount Washington? 

Mike Carmon: Cold, windy, and icy. 

Kyle David: Definitely very windy. And that record is, I want to say like 230 miles an hour 

Mike Carmon: to it. Yeah. 231, 231 miles per hour. Yeah. And it was a confirmed. Because at the time I think the observers thought this, it would be a world record.

We actually have the handwritten log the observers were [00:18:00] writing as it was happening and they literally said, I'm not sure anyone's going to believe this. But afterwards, they checked the calibration of the instrument, and it held up at least to the standards of the time, so that record could stand. 

Kyle David: And even though Mount Washington, that record was broken, it's still very impressive.

231 miles an hour. And that's just the peak. It's just windy all year round up there, if I'm not mistaken. 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, it's windy all year round. On average, I think the statistics are something like every other day, there's a wind gust in excess of hurricane force. And about every once every three days, there's a gust over a hundred miles per hour.

Um, so it's incredibly windy, especially in the winter months. The summer can be windy too. Um, but the winter months are where most of your high winds are going to happen. 

Kyle David: So very windy, very cold and icy at times too. And some people have described it as home of the [00:19:00] world's worst weather or the world's brutalist weather.

Can you share a moment where you felt genuinely humbled by the power of mother nature and the weather up there? 

Mike Carmon: Oh, take your pick. Um, I have a, I have a lot of moments like that. Um, and that was, I think, like I said before, I was a little naive when I first went up there having never hiked, never skied winters in New Jersey or.

Far different from winters in New Hampshire. So I was humbled very quickly. I think one of the memories that has always stuck with me was early in my career, but I think still sticks with me as one of the moments where I felt most overwhelmed. One of the biggest challenges with. Uh, the observatory, as you can imagine, is getting up there, especially in the wintertime, getting up and down the mountain.

The shift changes are once a week. And so I remember a couple months into my full time job up there, um, it was our day to come down from the mountain. And in the wintertime, we used a snowcat. It's what you'll [00:20:00] see at ski resorts. They groom the slopes there. That's what we use for transportation up and down in the wintertime.

And so we just go on top of the road and take our time. And this particular day we were coming down, it was particularly brutal. I think it was late January, early February day. Extremely low visibility. A lot of snow had fallen. There was a lot of heavy snow drifting on the road. And so we started down in the snow cat.

The road is about seven and a half miles long. Um, that trip down took us about six hours in the snow cat. So barely crawling along at one to two miles per hour for most of it. Just because the visibility was so poor and part of what sometimes needs to happen when the visibility is that bad. And you're trying to get up or down the road is the big challenge in blizzard conditions is lack of contrast.

Everything's white. So making out where's the road versus where's the edge of the road can be very challenging when [00:21:00] everything's rime ice. And so what we were basically taking turns doing is, uh, we would get out in front of the snowcat dressed in our brightly colored clothing and just walk in front of the cat.

Basically for the operator who's driving the snowcat, find the road for the operator. Because even just that little bit of extra added visibility helped. And so when it was my turn to do it, I wasn't first time I'd ever done it. I was completely overwhelmed. This kid that grew up in central New Jersey is now like up here leading a snow cat and like, we're talking like Mount Everest level weather conditions.

And it was extremely humbling. It's one of those things where you don't necessarily realize until you experience getting out in whiteout conditions and what that disorientation is actually like. And it's one thing if you're just walking yourself through those, but it's another thing if you have a bunch of people in a vehicle behind you that are counting [00:22:00] on you to find your way through and make sure you're not leading them off the road or anything like that.

So. That was a very humbling experience for me. We did get down safely. We take all sorts of safety precautions. When we do those sorts of things, we're tied to the cat. If we ever get overwhelmed at any time, we have signals that will signal back to the operators say, all right, no, I'm done. I can't do this anymore.

Or I'm sorry, I can't find the road for you anymore. Um, so there's all sorts of safety precautions that are taken in those situations. But it was very humbling for me. And it was my first sort of real taste of. Um, yeah, the mountain is a whole nother, a whole, it could be a whole nother world really, uh, when you think about it, once you get above tree line.

Kyle David: Yeah, just to, cause you'd said that this is almost otherworldly and these conditions that you described, they're brutal and you've spent a lot of time up there at the Mount Washington Observatory. So I'm curious, how is your relationship with the weather up there evolved, the unique environment [00:23:00] over time and what keeps you up there?

Mike Carmon: Yeah, it's interesting. I think, um, You know, cause I was up there as a weather observer for almost 10 years. And the weather observer life is you live up there for a week and then you come down for a week. And so when you're up there, you're living and working. And I took a little bit of a break from it because it can be very isolating.

It's interesting living on top of a mountain has its advantages, but also because the weather is so extreme so often, a lot of times you're just inside most of the day and then you pop out to take a weather observation. And sometimes that's being outside for that five minute period. If that is all you can manage because it's so cold and so windy.

And so I think after, after almost 10 years of that, I think I got a little, a little antsy, I was still fascinated by the weather and wanted to keep learning about it, but I think I need a little bit of a change. But I think now that I'm back and I'm not up there as much in this current role, I don't live [00:24:00] up there anymore.

I go up to cover if need be, but I'm mostly based out of the valet office now. I think it's a nicer fit for me because I still get to go up there when I need to and experience the weather for shorter snippets of time. But also I don't necessarily need to be up there constantly and feel that sort of isolation that I was occasionally feeling in living up there.

So it's a tough life for a weather observer. That's harsh. And most observers only last a year or two. Just because it's quite a unique, but it can be a very challenging experience. Um, so yeah, I think over time it certainly has evolved. I think I was starting to begrudge winter a little bit and I was up there the first time around, but now I think I look forward to, at least on top of Mount Washington to when winter comes and the weather really starts to get a lot more interesting and exciting.

Kyle David: Wow. One to two years for. Weather observers sticking around. 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, I think the average and this changes, it evolves over time. Sometimes [00:25:00] there's periods of time where more observers will stay on for longer, but usually the average is about two years. There are a few people that have bucked that trend. I was up there for almost 10 years.

There's another observer up there. He's been up there almost 20. Um, but most people, it's just a couple of years. And, and then a lot of times they want to move on to something that's a little bit more nine to five. A little bit more stable or they want to go into the National Weather Service or there's some people who it's not extreme enough for them and they want to go off to Antarctica and do winters down there.

So it's interesting. I feel like it becomes a little bit of a fork in the road for a lot of people in their meteorological career 

Kyle David: about Washington's weather. Conditions sound extreme, but I wonder if people who actually work there think, Oh, this is not enough for me. I want to go to Antarctica where it's even colder.

And at certain times of the year, there's no sunlight. 

Mike Carmon: It's interesting. I did not get that urge for me. Mount Washington was enough as far [00:26:00] as how extreme, uh, like if I were to go somewhere different, more extreme, I would go for places where there's more, uh, severe weather, more convective thunderstorms, things like that.

Um, I also love the desert, which is also a place of extremes, but a different extreme. Um, I think as far as cold extreme Mount Washington is enough for, for me. 

Kyle David: Absolutely. And. It makes you wonder, though. It's otherworldly weather, it's extreme weather, and these observations have been taken since the, the 30s.

So, I guess some are gonna wonder, why continue taking weather observations in such an extreme environment? What's the importance of getting the weather data in such a harsh environment? 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a question we get a lot, and there's a couple things that go into it, but I think the main thing is just continuity in data in general.

Especially in the United States, it can be very difficult to find. So I think in general, just having that continuity, there's a lot of value in that, but then also with that continuity and data, there's also the ability [00:27:00] to study trends over time, which has been done, temperature trends, snowfall trends, winter time, the length of seasons, that sort of thing.

And then also all of our weather observations that we do take, just like any other weather observation station, they do get submitted to national weather service. And then that is used as the initialization data for computer forecast models that we all use to forecast. Um, and so we think of Mount Washington as a kind of a stationary weather balloon at 6, 300 feet, or at about 800 millibars there.

And so we're a stationary weather balloon getting this weather data coming in. So instead of having to launch a balloon, we just have it coming in all the time. And that could be very valuable for initializing computer forecast models. And that sort of thing. And I think the other part of it too, is because of where we are, there's a lot of recreation that happens, skiing, hiking, um, all sorts of things, all [00:28:00] sorts of really fun activities and weather plays a big role in all of that.

So having people up there that are studying the weather and then communicating current and also future conditions, more and more people every year rely on that. And so that's been, I think, a critical part of, of the mission of the observatory as well as just communicating to recreationalists, the weather forecast and is this a safe day to hike?

Is this a safe day to ski or not? And a lot of times the answer is no. So our information hopefully helps people make more informed, more safe decisions when they are enjoying the White Mountains. 

Kyle David: And just to understand the weather overall, as you said earlier. You're basically a weather balloon that's stationary at 800 millibars, which is 6, 300 feet as you said, so Yeah, those data points are very important for understanding the big picture and stuff.

We're [00:29:00] gonna take a quick break right here, but don't go anywhere. We still got more for you coming up.

On this day in weather history, we revisit a devastating EF3 tornado that tore through parts of Texas and Louisiana on January 20th, 2010. In the days leading up to this event, a very warm and unstable air mass had developed across the south central United States, accompanied by unusually moist air for late January from the Gulf of Mexico.

The environment was ripe for severe weather. On January 20th, A low pressure system swept out of the Great Basin and into the Southern Plains. The system took full advantage of the conducive atmosphere on the 20th through the 22nd. It spawned an outbreak of severe weather across the South, including damaging wind gusts, [00:30:00] severe hail, and multiple tornadoes.

A couple of weak tornadoes first formed in the early afternoon in Texas. on the 20th, the F3 Tornado, the strongest tornado of this outbreak first touched down in a mostly wooded area just before 5 p. m. Central time in Eastern Harrison County, Texas, about six miles to the west of the town of Wascom as it progressed, it uprooted and snapped multiple trees and power lines.

The tornado began to quickly intensify before crossing over interstate 20 around rush hour. It was at this point that debris lifted up. from the tornado could be seen on weather Doppler radar. The tornado continued tracking northeast, destroying anything in its path. It passed through the northern portions of Jonesville and Wascom, Texas, tearing the roof off of a grocery store, leveling the walls from a large warehouse and destroying a few other buildings on the outskirts of the two towns.

The tornado continued moving northeast into Louisiana. and was [00:31:00] several miles to the west of Shreveport, Louisiana. Fortunately, the extent of the tornado's wrath at this point was to nearby trees. The tornado was beginning to waken, and it eventually dissipated just before 6 p. m. Central Time. The outbreak would continue across Texas and Louisiana, and would eventually spill over into Mississippi on the same day.

The low pressure system would continue moving east, producing more severe weather on the 21st and 22nd across the southeastern United States. The EF3 tornado caused 1. 5 million in property damage. Fortunately, this tornado took no lives and injured no one. The largest severe weather outbreak spanning from the 20th to the 22nd claimed no lives, but a tornado that passed through Huntsville, Alabama, On the 21st injured three people.[00:32:00] 

Hello and welcome back to the everything weather podcast. I'm your host, Kyle David. And today we're joined by Mike Carmon. He's the summit weather operations manager for the Mount Washington observatory in New Hampshire. We've been talking a little bit about his weather story. What got him to the Mount Washington observatory.

And what it's like collecting the weather data information up in such an other worldly environment. We're going to get back into that conversation a little bit more about his experiences, his role up there. But before we get back into that, I've got another fun game for you, Mike. Guess the top five windiest months at Mount Washington.

And based on our earlier conversation, I feel like this is going to be a walk in the park for you. 

Mike Carmon: Oh, you're putting me to the test here. Wow. So I'm sure there was a time when I was back on my weather observer days where I knew I probably knew this based on the data, but I'm a little rusty, so we'll see how it goes.

So the top [00:33:00] five windiest months, I'm on Washington. 

Kyle David: Yes. And that is based on normal monthly average wind speed. So the normal wind speed. Across an average for the month. 

Mike Carmon: Okay. Let's see. So definitely windier in the winter, um, and, and spring. Um, so I would say the top five in there, I'm sure January, February, March, and April must all be in the top five.

And then maybe, Oh, 

Kyle David: Jen, January, February, number one, number two, March is number four on the list. 

Mike Carmon: But April's not 

Kyle David: April is not in the top five. So you still have no three and number five. 

Mike Carmon: I think I skewed myself with April because that's when the big record happened. Yeah, so I'll go backwards then. I'm guessing November and December are probably in there too.

Kyle David: Uh, number three and number five are December and November. I guess the actual, uh, the wind speeds. No, I'm not going to make a 

Mike Carmon: time where I knew 

Kyle David: that too. [00:34:00] But yeah, I'll, I'll call that a clean sweep. January, February, December, March, and November are the top five windiest months based on normal monthly average wind speed up at Mount Washington.

Very windy. And just to, Clarify for our listeners, the normal monthly average wind speed for January is 45. 6 miles an hour. So it normally is around the lower to mid forties in terms of wind speed. That's insane. 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, that's, it's no joke. Yeah. Even just hearing those numbers again, it's unbelievable, but that's why they call it the home of the world's worst weather.

Kyle David: For sure. I'm just curious that every time you go outside of New Hampshire and it's like 30, 40 miles an hour there, you just, ah, that's just a breeze. 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, I do get on my high horse a little bit when people talk about that, but it is also, I think for me, it's important to remember, you know, up there, 40, 50, 60, whatever mile an hour winds.

You know, [00:35:00] obviously that location, the observatory is built to withstand it. We're obviously down here. And as a homeowner, I can attest to this down in the Valley. We're not really, uh, most places are not built to withstand those winds. I do like to get my high horse a little bit about it and be like, oh, I've seen much higher than this.

But then also realize that also up there, you don't have trees falling on houses and property damage to worry about and that sort of thing. 

Kyle David: And things that can be blown around to cause said damage. 

Mike Carmon: Exactly. 

Kyle David: So we've been talking a little bit about what the Mount Washington Observatory is all about, your experiences, and how you eventually got there.

But we haven't really talked about what you really do. So you're the summit weather operations manager up at the observatory or down towards the valley. So I'm curious, what do you specifically do at the observatory? 

Mike Carmon: It's interesting. I'm relatively new in the role and it's a little bit of a new role itself.

So it's been fun. Cause I've been figuring it out as I go, like what the job should look like, which is always the fun place to [00:36:00] be. But yeah, my role is very multifaceted. I would say we have the team of weather observers that man the weather station on top of Mount Washington. But then there's also a staff down in the Valley.

That's mostly administrative staff, all doing critical work to help keep the organization running and keep the observatory funded and all those things. I'm the go between between those two worlds. Basically, my main job as is suggested in the title is, is very summit focused. Focused on the summit staff, the observers, interns, volunteers that live and work up there.

A lot of my role is focused on making sure they have what they need to operate. For lack of a better term. So they have what they need to take adequate weather observations, whether it's making sure instrumentation is functioning properly, if there's instrumentation problems or it related issues, making sure that those issues are relayed down to the staff in the Valley that have a little bit more deeper technical knowledge that can help out with those sorts of [00:37:00] things.

A big part of my job is the facilitation of, of shift changes. So getting folks up and down the mountain safely. And making sure that happens, that the upgoing shift gets up, that the downgoing shift gets down, that all the information that needs to be exchanged between the two are exchanged efficiently, making sure if we know it's going to be a snowy day, that we have a snowcat operator available to operate the cat, making sure that whatever needs to go up gets up as far as.

Equipment supplies, paper towels, and toilet paper. That is a reality. We have to figure out how to get that stuff up every week. And then also coming down, making sure everything gets down and whatnot. It's a little bit of everything. I also, one of the big functions too, for me is if there is a staffing situation on top, if someone actually just, just happened to me last week.

I had an observer. That wasn't feeling well and couldn't go up for his shift. And I basically had to pack a bag and [00:38:00] go up and cover for a couple of days. And so that's part of my role. And that coverage includes taking weather observations, doing the regularly scheduled weather forecasts and radio shows, all things I used to do as an observer.

Um, and so it's just covering that when need be. Then I think what's fun for me is I basically figure out when I need to be up there and when I don't, and I. Make my work schedule accordingly. Um, and so it's very different from when I was an observer where I was up there. I'm up there for a week. My schedule is very locked in.

Whereas now with this role, I have a little bit more of a, all right, if I need to be up there, I gotta get myself up there. If I don't need to be up there and I can do my work from home, I do my work from home. If I need to pop into the office or if I need to go and do a presentation for an organization about the observatory at this place, I do that.

So it's a lot. It definitely keeps life interesting in a bit of a different way because I'm doing so many different things both inward and [00:39:00] outward facing. 

Kyle David: Yeah, it sounds like you do a lot. And you said that you do shows as well? Can you clarify on what you meant by that? 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, so there's some regularly scheduled radio shows that happen with the summit weather observers, mostly with local radio stations and things like that.

So if I'm up on the summit, I'm sometimes covering those radio shows, which are always a lot of fun just to talk about what the weather is doing on Mount Washington that day and what the forecast is. Um, but then also in the Valley, um, a lot of times we'll do outreach and just talk to different organizations locally and regionally about Mount Washington, about the observatory, what we do, what our mission is, um, what life is like on the top.

And so that's part of my role too, is to give some of those talks and those presentations offsite. 

Kyle David: Interesting, okay. And just curious, since you do some public outreach stuff too, you do some radio shows, you're a little bit more out there than the traditional weather observer or somebody who is involved with collecting weather [00:40:00] data.

What's one of your more memorable moments where you made a difference in somebody's perception of the weather and overall science? 

Mike Carmon: Oh, that's a really great question. And it's funny cause sometimes you don't necessarily know when you've made an impact in that kind of role. I would say part of my first stint up there as a weather observer, part of my role was education specialist.

And doing media appearances, a lot of times we'd get calls from the weather channel or get calls from regional news when interesting weather was happening and they'd want to do an interview with an observer. So the education specialist would do that, but then also we do educational programs with schools.

A lot of those educational programs, usually they're, they're done remotely and. You talk about the weather, you talk about how we take weather observations, the basics of meteorology, climatology, ecology of the white mountains, things like that. And so I did a lot of those educational [00:41:00] programs. And I think that was the most fun for me when I was able to talk to young students from the top of Mount Washington.

And talk to them about what it's like to be a meteorologist, what it's like to work on Mount Washington. And yeah, I think it's one of those things where I didn't necessarily know what kind of an impact I was having. But after the fact, a lot of times we hear from the teachers about how much the students enjoy the program and, Oh, this student came to me and they say they want to be a meteorologist one day.

Like those sorts of moments are probably the best, I think, for me, inspiring. Yeah. Young minds to go on and do something similar to what I'm doing in the field, because we're always going to need meteorologists. We're always going to need climatologists. And so that's really exciting for me. 

Kyle David: And just curious during any one of your school visits or your interactions with educational programs, has there been a question that has made you think, Oh, wow, that's a really great question.

Or, Oh, [00:42:00] that's an interesting question. 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, I think so. And I remember it's interesting cause I had a little bit of a gap with the observatory here, but I definitely remember towards the end of my career. You'd always, you generally hear the same questions from people, whether they were students or adults.

And so it got to the point where I was like, if I hear a question I haven't heard before, I get excited because. Oh, wow, this is something I've never been asked before. And so it, it would challenge me a little bit. So yeah, I'm trying to think of a example of a question stumped me, or at least it was something different.

I think I'm always excited when I hear question or questions that have a bit more of a technical bend, as far as how we forecast the weather, how we can predict the weather with the accuracy that we can in such an extreme environment. A lot of people don't necessarily think to go there when asked, I get some questions about it, but when they really want to dig into the technical part of it, about how weather models are able to really [00:43:00] pin down a place like Mount Washington and give us enough resolution and accuracy to make a somewhat accurate forecast.

That was always exciting for me to get into the more technical jargon about forecasting and doing accurate weather prediction. So those are probably some of the moments I enjoy the most. 

Kyle David: Wow, were those high schoolers asking those questions or what? 

Mike Carmon: So sometimes, yeah, sometimes it was high school students asking those questions.

But then sometimes, yeah, if we're doing, we also do tours for the pub, general public up there when the buildings open in the summertime and those sorts of things, but sometimes, yeah, you get some weather enthusiasts, some older weather enthusiasts that would jump in with those questions. Yeah. Sometimes it was a little out of left field because you never know who's in the crowd that you're giving a tour to, but yeah, sometimes as young as high school would ask some of those more technical questions and I'd be like, and sometimes the answer would be actually, I don't know that we should figure that one out.

Kyle David: Definitely. [00:44:00] And real quick, before I talk about that gap of yours that you had, what's the funniest question that you've been asked? 

Mike Carmon: I think the funniest question is. Always related to, so there is a long tradition with the observatory of having a, a summit cat as a pet, um, all the way back to the 1930s. Um, and so inevitably you almost always get a question about the cat.

Um, and so. Any question about the cat was always, uh, funny. Oh, does the cat go outside or does the cat, do you feed the cat? Does he stay up here? And some of those questions that I get the sort of, there's this sort of mysticism, if you will, around, Ooh, there's a summit cat that lives up here and whatnot, but then it's, it's just a, it's just a regular house cat.

And yeah, the observers just take turns taking care of him and making sure he has what he needs. But it was, it's always funny. Cause we'd get these, uh, Very interesting questions that you would think are pretty [00:45:00] straightforward. How does the cat eat? We, we bring up food for him and we feed him. Like, but you know, I get it.

Like people don't necessarily think about, they think there's a little bit of magic mixed into it where really it's just the truth is maybe a little bit less impressive. It's pretty boring usually. One of the things that we got, obviously you get a lot of snow up there, but you also get a lot of rime ice up there.

And so sometimes that's some of the freshest, most pure water you can get is you take snow or rime ice on top of Mount Washington and melt it down. You give a little bit of that to rime ice or snow water to the cat. That's probably good for him. A little bit of Mount Washington magic there. I love the reference.

Kyle David: I'm glad you got that reference. 

Mike Carmon: That is my favorite Adam Sandler movie, actually. 

Kyle David: There's a few out there that I haven't seen, but that's the one that I remember the most. Just real quick. What's the cat's name? So 

Mike Carmon: the current cat is name is Nimbus. 

Kyle David: Oh, I love it. Who came up with that name? 

Mike Carmon: Actually, that's a good question.

So Nimbus, when I left, there was a different [00:46:00] cat up there. The cat, when I was an observer, his name was Marty and he was named after a famous broadcaster that lived up there, Marty Engstrom. Unfortunately, Marty passed away during my gap time. He was old. He was 17. He lived a long and good life. The Nimbus game on during my gap, I got his name.

I think it was crowdsourced. If I remember correctly, they put a poll out to the observatory members. And folks could vote. I think that's how Nimbus got his name. They wanted to put a more meteorological spin on this one's name. 

Kyle David: I couldn't think of a more fitting name than Nimbus, something data related.

So I actually want to explore something you said just before. You said you had a gap during your, for your time at Mount Washington. I want to explore that a little bit. What did you do during that gap? 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, it was an interesting time. I mentioned before a little bit that I, during my, Last few years on Mount Washington, I did some education work, and I think I was looking for life off the summit, basically.

[00:47:00] I'd been up there for 10 years, and I was looking for something a little bit different. And unfortunately, there wasn't really a position for me to go to in the observatory itself like there is now. I started looking around, and I came across this start up non profit organization called White Mountain Science.

And they did STEM education in Northern New Hampshire, basically educational programs with young students and robotics and coding and just general kind of problem solving and engineering. All very hands on and I had so much fun doing the education part of my job with the observatory. I was like, this seems interesting and it allows me to live in the valley and have a little bit more of a normal sort of nine to five existence.

And so, it was a risk at the time because it was a deviation from meteorology and It was a small growing company. And so I was like, all right, if this is going to be purely passion to [00:48:00] jump into an organization like this, but yeah, I ended up staying for six and a half years and growing the company to three or four times the size.

When I was hired, I was the third employee. And when I left the company had grown to, I think somewhere between six and eight full time employees and another half dozen part time employees. And so I helped grow it to where it is. And I had a lot of fun. I learned a lot about what it means to grow a startup nonprofit organization.

Learned a lot on the administrative side and. Things like writing grants and building relationships with schools and communities. That was basically what my role evolved into was relationship building with schools and communities. And, and yeah, I learned a lot. I also learned a lot about problem solving and picked up some technical skills.

I didn't have some more coding skills, some more skills in things like 3d printing and CAD and. And [00:49:00] circuitry and just in turning around and teaching those things. So yeah, it was fun. And I, like I said, I learned a lot and it's now a thriving organization in Northern New Hampshire is a really cool experience for me to get a little bit of a different perspective on and a different realm of science.

Kyle David: Yeah. And that's awesome that it's still going on to this day and you've got fresh experiences out of it as well. 

Mike Carmon: Yeah. I got so much fresh experience in STEM, but then also in, you know, Even just nonprofit management, I picked up some management skills. I didn't necessarily have the first time around. I'm at Washington, some skills and just problem solving.

And yeah, I helped bring the company through COVID, which for everyone was a big challenge getting through COVID. I learned a ton about being flexible and adapting and responding to the needs of your clients, basically during a really weird time when everything was changing so quickly. So. I think that those are experiences I'm going to have with me [00:50:00] forever.

Kyle David: I'm just curious. What would you say is the most surprising skill that you've seen transfer between these different roles from your time in Mount Washington to the educational program, and then back to Mount Washington in more of a managerial position? 

Mike Carmon: I think the, the, the problem solving at white mountain science or it's WMSI.

We abbreviate it to whimsy. And that was, that goes into the air that we wanted. For all of our programs and the culture is learning is fun. Science is fun. It should be whimsical. And I think, yeah, during my time at whimsy, there was also an era of just problem solving and. This sort of approach of, I don't know what the answer is.

Let's figure it out or no, I haven't necessarily done this before, but here's a challenge. Let's figure it out. And we're very big about practicing what we preached. And so we were teaching that to our students, but also we were doing the same thing in our work culture. And I think for me, that really rubbed off on me personally, both of my professional and personal life.[00:51:00] 

I think there were things that I didn't think I could do before my experiences And then coming out of that, now I've noticed jumping back into my role here. I'm relearning a lot of things that I did do before, uh, with the observatory, but I'm also learning new things in this new role. And I think I've felt a lot more comfortable taking on challenging situations, and I feel like I have the right mindset to, even if I don't know exactly how to get through a problem, just figure it out, roll up your sleeves and figure it out.

And I think that attitude for me has been super helpful in jumping back into the jobs as quickly as I have and, you know, figuring out the challenges that, that come my way. 

Kyle David: Yeah, and you've got a lot of experience with the weather education, the problem solving. I think that's a very critical skill that a lot of classrooms need to be teaching these days.

Mike Carmon: Absolutely. Yeah. And [00:52:00] definitely in sort of the hands on. environment because that's going to directly translate to the real world as soon as they leave school, even before. 

Kyle David: Absolutely. And with all the years of experience you have with weather education, what are the most persistent pieces of science, weather related information, or I should say misinformation that you've encountered over your, how have you approached addressing those pieces of misinformation?

Mike Carmon: Yeah, that's a good question. There's a lot out there. That's for sure. I think for me, The most persistent, I think anything climate related and I think climate change obviously is something that we're all reconciling with. And it's also very difficult to communicate because human brains are not wired to think long term.

They're not wired to look at long term trends. It's snowing [00:53:00] outside today and it's May, so climate change isn't happening. And that sort of attitude, you get it because especially for young people, you get it because if you're not in it, what climate change is going to look like for you personally, or for your town day to day or month to month.

And so it can be difficult if you don't have that. So I think communicating. We're trying to dispel even just myths about, uh, or maybe not even myths, just misunderstandings about what climate, what climate looks like, how climate is studied, that it's largely statistical in nature. I think that's been a fun challenge, but also it's a persistent one just because it's difficult to communicate, I think, and difficult for a lot of people to grasp.

And then also take that and say, all right, what do I do with that? How does that affect me? How can I help what I'm doing day to day? 

Kyle David: Yeah. And in trying to educate the public on science information, [00:54:00] but also keep it engaging as well. What's been your biggest aha moment in making complex weather and broader scientific concepts click for people?

Mike Carmon: I think it's trying to figure out a personal connection. People connect with stories. And I think I used this in my education work with whimsy, but now it's something, anything else I do, I try and figure out a good way to make a story out of whatever it is I'm trying to communicate. I could rattle off lots of fun weather facts and stats and statistics and data, which I love to do, but for most people, that's not really going to resonate with them.

It's going to go away. It's, you know, why should I care? And so I think trying to find a way for people to make a personal connection with what you're trying to communicate, tell a story of some kind, I think has been a really great way to try and bring it home for people. 

Kyle David: Absolutely. The power of a story is unmatched to a lot of different ways to communicate different information.[00:55:00] 

I want to change subjects for a little bit because I hear. That you do a lot of work contributing to, this is more, this is also on an educational note to Wikipedia, which a lot of people are familiar with and media read, some people may not be familiar with that second one before we get into more of what inspired you to do that.

Tell me a little bit about media read. 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, absolutely. I was excited about this opportunity and this came along relatively meteor ed is, is an online sort of international weather slash science news source. You can get forecasts, um, from Meteor Ed, um, but also there's a news segment to it as well. I like to write, and I like to communicate science, and so I was looking for more ways to do this.

So for Meteor Ed, I, I'm an independent contractor, and I write articles. They're not terribly technical. They're not terribly long, but it's articles about weather, but then just science in general. [00:56:00] Based on what's happening in the world of science and the world of weather on a day to day, week to week basis, I get to write articles and talk about anything from hurricanes, And droughts to, uh, neutron stars and black holes and anything in between.

And those are all fun passions of mine. It's a cool opportunity for me to just talk science and communicate science in lots of different realms. 

Kyle David: Very interesting. So you're getting into space weather a little bit there. 

Mike Carmon: Astrophysics has been a bit of a latent passion of mine, but kind of. Came out of the pandemic where we all had more time to explore different things.

And I chose to read about astrophysics for some reason, and I really enjoyed it. It's become something I'm also chasing as far as just wanting to know more and then communicate that. 

Kyle David: That's really awesome. And you're contributing your expertise, your passion to. The public, not only through this company, Meteorite, but also Wikipedia as well.

A lot of [00:57:00] people know about that as well. And in contributing your science expertise, what has been the most exciting and also frustrating part in contributing your expertise to the public in both of those formats? 

Mike Carmon: I think for me, and I think we talked about this a little bit too already. It's the misinformation and the disinformation.

There's so much of it out there. And that's why doing that work is so important. But also the persistence with which misinformation and disinformation can, can move through the culture. It moves so quickly and the truth has a lot of trouble catching up to it. And so the minute you dispel one thing over here, there's five more things that are ready to pop up in this other place.

It's like a game of whack a mole and it can be, that can be frustrating, especially when you get so passionate about. Critical thinking and figuring out, all right, I know the day [00:58:00] is there. The science is there. The research has been done. This thing is not, is not correct. This alternative medicine doesn't work, those sorts of things.

And what drives me in those situations is wanting to really give people the knowledge to make good decisions about life and know what's true. In whatever, in whatever realm you're talking. And so I get very passionate because I think this kind of came out of COVID too. There's a lot of missing disinformation out there and COVID was a new disease.

And we were learning things day to day, hour to hour. And it was like, all right, how do I figure out? Who to listen to and what's correct or not. And so I took it upon myself to figure out how to do that. Not to say I figured it out. And I think that's a, there's all sorts of biases and things that we're constantly having to check ourselves against and it, that never goes away.

But, but yeah, for me, I think my passion comes from just, I, I know what it [00:59:00] feels like, and I want other people the best information to not be, you know, duped into things that are not real or don't actually work or they're just blatant falsehoods. For no fault of their own, just through the fact that there's just bad information out there and they don't necessarily know not to listen to it.

It can get frustrating when those things pop up and you think you've, you put them down and they come up over here again. Um, but that's what, what keeps me going. 

Kyle David: Yeah. And there's definitely been a lot of that in the weather communication world, especially on social media and more, especially in the last few months, as of this recording with, Tropical weather and all sorts of different things going on.

I'm curious if you could go back in time and change one thing for the betterment of what would you change and why? 

Mike Carmon: That's a great question. And I think for me, it would be putting more of an emphasis. I think this is happening more now, but putting more of an emphasis on science, on the [01:00:00] communication aspect, wherever you may be, wherever you may be going with your scientific career.

Like making kind of classes and education in science communication, more of a mandatory thing. Cause even for me, I got a lot of technical knowledge in meteorology in my education. But as far as like the actual concept of science communication, not really something that I was formally trained in. And I think a lot of times.

What is difficult for people is that scientists, as they get deeper and deeper into their field, start to talk in this jargon that is difficult for folks that are not formally educated in those fields to really understand. Um, and it gets a little gatekeep y. And so I think it's important to have science communicators that are dedicated to bridging that gap, but then I also think it's important for scientists in general to figure out a little bit better how to communicate technical concepts in a non technical way.

And [01:01:00] that's, it's not easy. It's not trivial. And so I think if I could go back and just put more of an emphasis on the techniques of science communication for everybody, I feel like we'd be, maybe we'd be in a little bit of a better place as far as how to, you know, Uh, yeah, how to really know what's true and what's not.

Kyle David: Yeah, and I feel like there should be some sort of related communications for any aspect of, you know, society. Because being able to communicate those things in a layman's term is very important. 

Mike Carmon: Absolutely, very important. Yeah, because not, you can't, everyone can't know everything about everything. You're always going to have experts that have really deep knowledge.

And you're going to have folks that know nothing about a certain thing, but especially for like meteorology and climatology, those are things that affect everybody every day. Yeah. Finding a way to communicate it in a quick and concise way that's not technical is super important. [01:02:00] 

Kyle David: And to add on to that, there are people out there who don't know anything, but they'll pretend like they do know something, whereas there are experts out there who will admit, hey, I don't know everything with the weather, the science, just everything, but I'm, I'll admit that I don't know everything, but let's, let's work through it together.

Mike Carmon: Yeah, no, it's, it's a really important, I think, realization. They call it the, the Dunning Kruger effect, where if you learn something new about a topic. Uh, you immediately think, you know, way more than you do because you learned all this new information, but then as you get to learn more and get deeper in your expertise, you start to realize how much you actually don't know.

And so I think that's when you really reach a mature level of understanding of I know what I know. I also know how much I don't know about a topic and that's when getting over that hump for people and I've done it too is hard, but I think it keeps you open to learning more, which I think that's the, at the end of the day, the most important thing.

Yeah. 

Kyle David: Absolutely. And Mike, I've got one [01:03:00] more question for you before we get into the last part of our podcast episode, and that is extreme weather on a day to day basis or sometimes on a day to day basis up at Mount Washington, 231 mile an hour wind record. That's legendary. But. If you could go back in time in the spirit of time travel and witness any weather event of your choosing, what would it be and why?

Mike Carmon: Ooh, any weather event of my choosing, I would have to say, yeah, I think what draws headlines for obviously for most people are major hurricane landfalls. Um, because you get just a little bit of everything. So I would have to say, yeah, probably something like being, and obviously these things cause major destruction.

So I definitely don't want to make light of that, but like a landfalling hurricane Katrina or a landfalling hurricane Camille, Well, the category five hurricane landfall, I think of some kind, yeah, I've seen similar to that, but not that [01:04:00] level that I think would be, I can't only imagine what that's like to be in the eye of something like that as it's, as it's coming ashore.

And so I'm sure rivals even Mount Washington's weather. So that's probably where I'd be. 

Kyle David: Let me get a partial taste of it with the winds up there. All right, Mike, we've got whether or not. This is gonna be a mix of weather trivia and non weather trivia questions. We're gonna see where you come out with it.

With that said, are you ready? I'm ready. All right. This is whether or not your first question is related to Game of Thrones. The song, The Reigns of Castamere, recounts the ruthlessness of Tywin Lannister destroying House Tarbeck and this other rebellious house. Was it A, House Karstark? B, House Reyn? C.

House Carl Lannister, or D. House Tully. 

Mike Carmon: Uh, that would be B. House [01:05:00] Reign. 

Kyle David: Final guess? 

Mike Carmon: Final guess. 

Kyle David: You are correct. It is House Reign. I figured that was going to be an easy one for you. 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, my knowledge there is pretty deep. We'll see. It's been a few years since it's been on, but I think I still have it. 

Kyle David: And maybe we'll have you back on for a Game of Thrones weather discussion in the future.

Mike Carmon: Oh, that sounds awesome. 

Kyle David: For sure. Alright, this is whether or not your next question is related to tornadoes in New Hampshire. On average, how often does New Hampshire see tornadoes per year? Is it A. 1 2 B. 3 4 C. 5 6 or D. 12 14 

Mike Carmon: I'm gonna say I don't exactly know the answer, but I'm gonna say Was it B? Yeah, was B was 2 4?

Was that what B was? Or 3 4? 

Kyle David: I'll read them off again for you. 

Mike Carmon: A is 1 

Kyle David: 2, B is 3 4, C is 5 6, and [01:06:00] D is 12 

Mike Carmon: 14. Yeah, I'll say B, 3 4. 

Kyle David: Final answer? 

Mike Carmon: Final answer. 

Kyle David: You are incorrect. It is 1 2 tornadoes per view. Okay. But still close. 

Mike Carmon: That was, yeah, I was oscillated between those two. 

Kyle David: We obviously know it wasn't 12 to 14.

Enough that I wore New Jersey, if anything. Alright, this is whether or not your next question is related to Marvel. The Hulk is known for his green appearance, but this was actually not his originally designed appearance. What was the Hulk's original color before he was designed to be green? Is it A, blue, B, red, or C?

C gray or D yellow. 

Mike Carmon: Wow. Ooh, this, I do not know. I didn't realize that the Hulk was not originally designed to be green. 

Kyle David: I learned something until early up today when I was researching this. 

Mike Carmon: I know there's a, I just saw the trailer for it. I know there's a whole sort of [01:07:00] deal coming out in the next, in the next movie.

I wonder if that's. Related to that so I'm gonna say red. Is 

Kyle David: that your final guess? 

Mike Carmon: The final guess. 

Kyle David: You are incorrect. It was gray 

Mike Carmon: Gray, it's not as interesting 

Kyle David: and to my knowledge I think it was due to printing issues with the way it came out and so they ultimately changed it to green Don't f k that because i'm not a comic book aficionado, but and the red hulk I saw that trailer that looks really really good 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, absolutely.

But yeah, it makes sense with the whole printing color thing. 

Kyle David: Yeah. All right. This is whether or not your next question is related to hurricanes. And in the spirit of misinformation, this is related to hurricane myths. Which of these hurricane myths are actually true and not a myth? Is it A, storm surges are the deadliest part of a hurricane?

B, hurricanes are only a concern along the coast? C, Taping your window [01:08:00] is the best method to keep them from breaking. Or D, you are safe when the eye of the hurricane has passed. 

Mike Carmon: Uh, I'm gonna say A is n is not a myth that storm surge is the deadliest part of a hurricane. Final guess? 

Kyle David: You are correct. It is storm surges are the deadliest part of the hurricane.

And also I, in my search of looking up common hurricane myths, I gotta wonder where taping your window started becoming a popular myth or a common myth. 

Mike Carmon: Yeah, that's interesting because I know I've seen, I see pictures when folks are preparing for evacuations and folks tape their windows. I guess maybe.

Yeah, I wonder where that did come from. 

Kyle David: Yeah, I guess maybe so it doesn't shatter and go everywhere. I'm not too sure about that one. All right, this is whether or not your last question is related to hiking in New [01:09:00] England. Which one of these is not a hiking trail that traverses around or through Mount Washington?

Is it A, the Appalachian Trail? B, White Dot and White Cross Trails? C, Tuckerman Ravine Trail, or D, Lionhead Trail. 

Mike Carmon: So that would be B, White Dot and White Cross. 

Kyle David: White Dot and White Cross Trails, is that your final guess? Yep, final guess. You are correct. It is not White Dot and White Cross Trails that runs around Mount Washington.

And with that said, that is the last question of whether or not in the end of the podcast we go, how can people stay in touch with you and your work, Mike? 

Mike Carmon: Absolutely. Yeah, I am on social media, so you can follow me there. My handles are all over the place. You can find me on Facebook with my name. You can find me on Instagram.

I post a lot of pictures. My Instagram handle there is red rocks and rare factions. And then I am [01:10:00] on X. Twitter, whatever you want to call it. Skeptic Mike C is my handle there. Yeah. I post a lot of content about just the weather. Also New Hampshire and I travel, I post stuff about that. And then usually on X I'm posting more of my skeptical content.

So yeah, that's where you can find me. 

Kyle David: That's an interesting mix of handles there. And we'll make sure to include that in the show notes as well. All right. And we'll make sure to include all of that info in the show notes for you. With that said, that brings us to the end of the episode. Thank you, Mike, for joining me on today's episode and thank you to the listener for listening to everything weather we hope to see you in the next episode.